High Mileage Birds (how reliable?)

[wm_sorg]

Hi Guys,

This my first post to the forum. I have seen some good pricing on high mileage birds lately. I have narrowed my search to a few birds with the 4.6 drivetrain with mileage ranging from 111k to 146k.

I am looking to get about a year or so out of the car. However I want the car to be reliable. I plan on doing regular maintenance when I get it. Are there any issues with the 4.6 that I should ba aware of?

How about suspension, etc?

If the car was reasonable maintained, how much life does it have left in it? Any high mileage birds on the forum? Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Regards,
BILL

 

[Rolling-Thunder]

I have 196,000 miles on my car, and most everything is original. This includes engine, tranny, driveshaft, hub bearings, bushings, etc.

What I have replaced so far is;

1. Both outer tie-rods.
2. radiator.
3. strut rod bushing
4. rear springs and shocks (upgraded to the heavier sport springs/shocks)
5. Brake pads and rotors (obviously)
6. three piece-cat. converter assembly

some things to "look out" for;

1. Tranny/ torque converter condition. Look at tranny fluid, too
2. Head gasket leak, passenger side rear (4.6 only)
3. U-joints.
4. Cat. converters. (may need replacing)
5. Broken springs (check all four)


Just some ideas, based on my own experiences.

 

[wm_sorg]

Thank you for your response. That's some great miles. Did you buy it new?

What mileage did the car have when you replaced those items?

How well do the ball joints hold up? Does it have them on all wheels because of the IRS?

 

[Rolling-Thunder]

When I bought it, it was one year old, and had 20,000 miles on it.

The three-catalytic converter piece was changed at 110,000 miles.

The radiator was replaced around 130,000 miles.

The left outer tie-rod went at 190,000 miles (they are greaseable)

The shocks were fine, just wanted the Sport spring'shock combo.

Both left side springs were broken, but at the very bottom.

There are no ball joints on the rear, front only, upper & lowers.

Mine are still the original ones.

 

[wm_sorg]

Thanks again. Does it still drive tight? Any looseness in the steering box? Are the water pump starter and alt still original? Sorry for the questions I have no experience with these cars.

 

[Rolling-Thunder]

Yes, it still drives tight.

Now that you mention it, I did replace the water pump at 193,000 miles, but only because winter is approaching. It was still working fine, and did not leak.

The starter is original, as is the alternator. I did replace the voltage regulator.

 

[wm_sorg]

That's great reliabilty. Is this common with theses cars? How hard do you run it? How difficult was it to change the water pump? How tough was it to change the spark plugs? I think I am going to pick one up.

 

[Rolling-Thunder]

The car is my daily driver, and I put about 25,000 miles (mostly interstate)
a year on it.

My car is not an exception, but you should give this car a good once over, and have a mechanic look at it too, before you buy it.

My 85 Cougar LS with 5.0 v8 gave me 220,677 miles, with original everything.

be sure to visit www.tccoa.com, and study up more. In the forums section, use the search button to check the mileage experiences posted there.

Good luck. Let me know how it goes.

 

[Birdman93]

From personal experience, a 5.0/AOD is more reliable than the 4.6L/Auto-whatever combination.

Lots of issues with that later tranny.

When I bought my 93, it had 80K-in two years I put over 100k miles, and only did tuneups and a water pump.

This weekend, I lost the OD band-at 215k miles. :auto

 

[Rolling-Thunder]

Lots of issues with that later tranny.

There are a few things you can do to improve the life of the 4r70w tranny, which is what is in the 94's and up.

1. Flush out ALL the old tranny fluid, and switch over to MerconV (Ford TSB advises this to cure TC shudder)

2. Install an auxillary tranny cooler. (Heat is the enemy here)

3. Upgrade the 1-2 accumulator and springs. (94 & 95's were problematic)

4. Replace the MLPS (94 & 95's were problematic)

5. Install a 96 or newer tranny pan and filter. (this has a deep sump in it)

NOTE: 96 and newer tranny's are improved over the 94 & 95

6. Modify the tranny per the Tech Articles over at www.tccoa.com
These modifications were reccomended by the Ford engineer that helped design the tranny.


Not to argue, but the 4.6 is leaps and bounds better than 5.0
4.6's have run routinely up to 200,000 and 300,000 miles.
There are plenty of Ford and aftermarket performance parts available to increase the horsepower of the motor.

One of the newly discovered upgrades is to swap in a 2002 Ford Explorer motor.
This all aluminum setup offers way more horsepower, and is lighter than a PI'd motor.

 

[Birdman93]

I have yet to see ANY 4.6L go over 200k without a major problem-the 5.0L I have has run 215K with oil changes, tuneups and one water pump-never had an intake crack on the 5.0L.

I also have a 72 Econoline van that has over 450k on the original motor/3spd manual transmission(302)-oil changes and tuneups, and one water pump on that motor as well.

Like to see a 4.6L copy that feat.

 

[Rolling-Thunder]

I have yet to see ANY 4.6L go over 200k without a major problem.

That's cool. I'm at 197,000 right now, so you practically know of one at this point.

There are members over at www.tccoa.com with 200,000 - 300,000 miles on theirs'.

Plus, NYC has lots of them, in YELLOW painted Fords...lol

A more interesting question, how many 3.8's have made it that far?

 

[wm_sorg]

Well. I almost had it but I got out bid at the last moment. I am mad because this one was real clean. I have a line on another 94 that needs a y pipe to the cat. I suspect that this will be in the 400 range if I do not do it myself. This one has 162K on it. I will be looking at it this weekend.

 

[Rolling-Thunder]

Didn't realize you were bidding on these cars.

Hope you have a chance to inspect them before you accept title.

Otherwise, it's just a roll of the dice...............good luck.

 

[wm_sorg]

I will. I found one here locally. Still knid of a gamble with the high miles.

 

[DGFourSixLX]

On a quick note, I would also like to mention the fact that mildly modified 4.6 engines and factory spec 4R-70W transmissions have been delivered as part of the Interceptor Crown Vic package (police cars) for years. Where I am from, the police run their cars up to 300,000 miles usually without any tranny problems and retain a good portion of their power. Aside from other more subtle improvements, the 4R-70W is an improved version of the AOD-E (electronically controlled AOD) given a stronger output shaft, wider stronger bands, and a stronger, more durable material in the clutch packs. Chances are with new tranny fluid the setup will give you many miles. If you'll only have it for a year, you won't need to change it unless the tranny is shuddering. In this case, replace it with Ford spec Mercon fluid. But, as many others that post in this forum will agree, you WON'T be keeping that car for only a year...wait and see.

-DG-

 

[Ralph78]

RE: High Mileage

I would be concerned about the timing chain on the 4.6L engines. I am about to upgrade my 1988 T-Bird "Sport", 5L engine with 262,430 miles on it with no engine or transmission work, to a 1997 T-Bird, so I have been researching the reliability of the later T-Birds, also 1997-8 Lincoln Mark VIII's. Unfortunately 1997 was the last year of the "rational" sized T-Birds and 98 the last of the Mark VIII's, so I will need to obtain a rather well used one.

The crew chief on my dirt track super stock is the chief mechanic for a major farm in the area. He works on the 4.6L engines a lot. His experience is that the timing chains often break between 125,000 and 175,000. When the chain breaks, the engine is then junk, (piston/valve conflict). He has started changing the timing chains at 120,000 miles. (not easy, it takes special tools to keep the cams aligned.) His suggestion is to also change the timing chain tensioners at the same time. As the front of the engine is off, he also changes the water pump, regardless of the miles on the old pump.

I have verified the timing chain breakage problems with several of the better local shops, where I know the owners from racing, so I am pretty sure they are not BS'ing me, and they agree it is safest to change the timing chain at about 100,000 to 130,000 miles. Also it is VERY IMPORTANT to properly torque the spark plugs, and check the torque often, otherwise a plug may get slightly loose. Once loose, the plug will quickly beat the threads out of the head. There is a fix, the head must come off, and a special kit used to replace the threads for all 4 plugs. (DO NOT use the standard Helicoil).

IMPORTANT, if you start to hear ANY timing chain noise, HAVE THE CHAIN CHANGED AT ONCE. I was told not to even drive it in to the shop, have it towed, or in my case winch it on to my race car trailer and take it to the shop. I had a lot of trouble changing timing chains on an old XK 150S Jaguar years ago and that was a 3.4L 6 Cylinder overhead cam engine. There is no way I'm going to go through the learning curve on a V-8 overhead cam engine.

From the others that have posted here, it seems that a number of the 4.6L engined T-Birds will stand up quite well, but you don't want to take a chance on destroying the engine just to save the cost of replacing the chain. NOTE: The repair shops only see the "Broken" T-Birds, so it is hard to tell what the % of failure is. Make sure you work with a shop that has done a number of timing chain replacements, you do not want to be their "learning curve".

Ralph78

 

[Rolling-Thunder]

I am not so sure your experiences match the vast majority of the 4.6L drivers out there. Have not seen this talked about as a problem over at tccoa.com

There are other problematic areas, but haven't seen timing chains as one of them.

EDIT:

Here's an example:

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20976&highlight=timing+chain

 

[wm_sorg]

Well it looks like I am the owner of a 1994. It was not my first choice but people around here do not return their calls. I had a line in a black and gray and a red on grey, but it did not seem they were motivated. I ended up with a 94 blue silver with a matching grey interior. The car needs a good cleaning. Has no rust, but there is a scrape near the right front headlight. The car has 141k on the odometer. Trans flud was bright red/pink and had absolutly no odor! Engine did not smoke or do any piston slap on start up. No knocks or pinging whatsoever when I test drove. Undercarige was bone dry.

Now for the problems:
Headlight lenses are not clear anymore.
Front struts seem to be original. Front end is has no play but does not heave good road feel. Tire wear is normal and car does not pull.
There is a noise coming from the rear that sounds like a loose shock mount.

Original exhaust. No leaks, but I think it looks britle.

The price was right $1,000 so I do not mind putting a couple of hundres bucks to make it more reliable.

 

[1994lx]

im possibly picking up a 94 witha rebuilt v8 and 130k on it for 2 grand im gonna be happy to have that