Air Conditioning Unit

[stubbie]

For anyone wanting to remove their air conditioning unit it can be done without removing the dash. I did it yesterday. It took about 4 hours to do and at this point I don't think I have broken anything else. Their is tons of room under the dash now.

 

[Jsteencken]

I will attemping the same thing come the Spring, Any chance you took some pictures of the procedure? If so you can send them to [email protected]

 

[stubbie]

Unfortunately I didn't but it is pretty straight forward. Another pair of hands will come in handy when you need to lift it over the transmission tunnel. First you need to remove the lower dash panel on the passengers side and then remove the heater box. That is a separate component. You then remove the bellows from the central vent and then the lower floor vent. I had no hoses as my unit had been disconnected for some time and the po had cut them off at the firewall. You will have to remove yours. Remove the hoses from the heater demister vents. It would help if you could remove the thermostat control switch and the capillary tube to gain a little more space for removal. If you intend to reuse your unit be very careful how you do that as the capillary tube is easily broken and will be difficult to replace. Disconnect any other vac tubes and you should be right to go. You sort of need to pull the unit forward to clear the bolts that go through the firewall and lift from the drivers side to clear the tunnel. This is were the other pair of hands would be handy. I did mine by myself. I had to sit on the center console and do this. That's roughly it but I would get the manual and follow the procedure there. It wasn't difficult just time consuming.

 

[handana]

Has Anyone used vintage air to replace their non functioning heat and air?

 

[HeadacheGuy]

I used classic air because I didn't see anyone else who had a tbird specific conversion but them. It works ok BUT we need to talk before you stroke the check for it. There are "issues" and their tech support are idiots.

 

[HeadacheGuy]

When you say non functioning I assume you already have factory air that doesn't work. If so repair it. Mine was a non a/c conversion.

 

[handana]

I have a factory ac car. Most of the hard parts are there (compressor, condenser, dash switches etc. no vacuum lines, cables, electrical or belts. The heater core is bypassed because the heat runs all of the time regardless of settings. The heater fans sorta works. I have no talent in this area, which is why I was thinking about a complete vintage or like system. I'm not having a lot of luck with local repair shops either.

 

[HeadacheGuy]

Here is the skinny on aftermarket. A good point is that the box is smaller than the original which makes it easier to install. Second good point is the Sanden compressor which is smooth and draws way less horsepower than the old York/Tecumseh compressors they used back then. The downside is if you like instant blended air....ain't happening. They do temp control solely with a water valve which means set your temp and wait 2 minutes before anything usefull happens. There is no blend door. The box means a little modification on your firewall which the templates in the instructions suck. The worst part I had and still have is 2 microswitches which control compressor and defrost function. Cheap, cheap, cheap. First one delivered was warped and wouldn't hit the switch's which i already installed and had to pull the box out and send it to Texas. The second one was only marginally better and i had to come up with my own bellcrank modification to make it work reliably. Defrost actuator motor is set to maintain its power in both directions which finally made mine click annoyingly in one direction (sounds of the gear stripping) so I had to install a cutout switch to kill its power once traveled. The controls now work somewhat backwards (defrost is heat and heat is now defrost) which they don't tell you anything about in the instructions but that is the way it is designed. It is a solution for anyone without A/C. If you have it.....fix it. Only variation you might do is to but the compressor and brackets from them and adapt to your system. Sandens are low drag, efficient bullet proof compressors. The air is cold and the heat is hot on mine but I would rather have gone original all things considered. Tap the guys in the forum here and you might come up with the parts you need to repair yours. Sorry for the long post but that's my take in a nut shell. One other note. I do this for a living and it took me three days to get it in and functioning. With the parts lined up you could probably get yours up to steam in one.

 

[HeadacheGuy]

One last note. IF you do it....... They stub the heater hoses for the core inside the passenger compartment. Mine got a pin hole right at the core so I thought the core went out. Filled my new carpet with antifreeze (which isn't the end of the world but sucks) sot I got smart when I got the warranty box back. Cut their crap off and put quality hose on.

 

[Terry64HT]

I agree with Headacheguy, the best choice would be to reuse your existing components, but if there are no vacuum lines then the odds are that it would need a fair bit of time and work to get things back in, and it isn't a pleasant place to work. You need the vacuum to operate all the dampers as well as engage the compressor clutch. If you can get vacuum back and the dampers all work, then you need to make sure the evaporator is ok. If it will hold vacuum or pressure, than it's best to put a new Sanden type compressor in. They sell an adapter for the old Tbird compressor brackets and I painted my compressor semi-gloss black before installation so it's hardly noticeable.
Let us know how things go
Terry
64HT

 

[stubbie]

I am/was fitting a Vintage Air AC System. Unfortunately I ran into a problem with having the wrong water pump for a 64. None of the pulleys lined up properly with the 1970 water pump I had on my 390. That took me 3 weeks to figure out what was going on there with the help of some forum members elsewhere. So I had to remove everything I had installed under the hood and everything required to come off to install a new pump. I have been busy painting parts and cleaning out the radiator and unfortunately have been sick on and off over the last 4 weeks but hope to get back to it next week now the new pump has arrived. I'll take picture of my install when I get to it. I bought the Gen2 Compact evap only I think it was and bought all the other bits and pieces locally with the help of my local AC guy.
Cheers

 

[HeadacheGuy]

I ran into a similar problem. I had asked tech support at Classic to make sure their compressor setup would work with my pulley setup. Had the original crank pulley with 2 inner pulleys and they assured me it would work. Non A/C pulley setup on my 65 did not work. I had a pulley off a 1970 pickup that worked well but requires you bend the timing pointer up slightly as the pulley is very slightly bigger. Your right Stubbie. When installed it looks very non intrusive and works well. Only other issue is that I was low on charge this year and the high pressure line oozed oil out of the bubble crimps over the winter. I guess another suggestion is to have the lines made up locally and use steel fittings instead of the aluminum ones that are pre fabed for you. Steel can be crimped a little tighter.

 

[handana]

AC Upgrade

The equipment (compressor, condenser, lines and heat box) is pretty much toast. The professional evaluation suggested that an after market system would cost about 1/3 of a repair because everything needs replacement. The new system would cost less to run and is electronic and requires no vacuum. (most of the vacuum stubs are gone as well as the canisters.) I contacted Classic and they do make a system for NON air cars but not for air cars. Their generic systems require a lot of extra special re-engineering. Vintage air also suggested a generic system but didn't downplay the re-engineering that the Classic guy did.
Looking for someone who did an upgrade with the Vintage system in an AC car
to advise me

 

[HeadacheGuy]

Classic surprises me. Great tech help.....geez. Hopefully someone who did what you are doing chimes in but I'll but in 2 more cents here. The same unit that fits mine should fit yours as the firewalls are the same. Their unit replaces the entire box so the only real difference should be the control panel which always show up on ebay for non a/c cars pretty cheap. You may need to get the blower motor cover on the firewall if the A/C cars are different. Only other thing you would have to do is make a box behind the vents to use your existing A/C vents which is actually desirable as I did it and it looks 100% better than their round dash "balls" (this only took me a couple of hrs and I am a sh***y fabricator). You can use the round receptacles (use 3 of them and cap one box outlet) by folding a piece of aluminum into a box to size that just fits in the dash and their ducting will fit right on. Bear in mind the the previous warnings I posted earlier but I can walk you through the deep grass on the issues they have. Only thing you stand to loose is the factory dash control panel for a/c but I'm willing to bet it can be made to work as they only use the blower switch , temp cable to the water valve (which they supply) and mode cable to their box (which they also supply). Their box is smaller than yours and realistically their are only 3 bolts that hold the damn thing in so it is much simpler than your existing system but only some of the benefits. In their defense it does blow decent cool air and very hot heat. If you decide to go that route I have done most of the bleeding for you but once again.....if someone else has done the A/C to A/C conversion chime in. On last note....the new system is electric and not electronic. They use a piece of crap actuator to achieve defrost and they power it in either direction all the time. It needs a separate kill switch or the gear wants to strip out over time....guess how I know this. Good luck, hope this helps.

 

[HeadacheGuy]

More more quick sidebar, though I advocate repairing existing, since R134a is what is available, the Classic air system is more efficient with less gas (2 lbs). Yours will retro but the high side pressures are a little trickier to control and I don't think you will get the outlet temps as low as the old R12 which is a plus for the aftermarket system.

 

[stubbie]

I still haven't got around to installing my Vintage Air system as yet into my original air con bird. Yes there are brackets and some prefab work that you will need to do to install your aftermarket air con system but it's only basic stuff that you can do yourself. I have bought brackets and sheet metal from my local hardware store and modified them to suite. The only difficult part is probably fitting up all the hoses and gassing the system. You can as I will, be getting a professional fitter to do all that. Good Luck

 

[Terry64HT]

Some moths ago, when I was adding my 2 cents worth to this discussion, I said that the Sanden type compressor fitted very well and was hardly noticeable. I'm back home from the south and have attached a couple of photos.
If you think the replacement of the compressor is the way to go, there is no down side as far as I'm concerned.
Terry
64HT

 

[handana]

A/c finally

I want to thank everyone who posted suggestions and encouragements as I worked thru the a/c system on my 66. Since a/c and heating is not in my skill set and the systems on these cars is way more complicated than most, I went to the experts. I was very fortunate in that I have a good radiator, heat and a/c shop lest than 20 minutes away.
They said they could fix this mess and make it work! And they did. For about the same amount as a Classic or Vintage system's parts. They soldered vacuum taps, rebuilt the compressor to handle the new coolant oil, replaced all the missing and broken parts. I am still so amazed. The dash controls all work now that they have vacuum. They even made a condenser to factory dimensions rather than order one for a lot more money.
I'm now ready for summer cruising.

 

[HeadacheGuy]

Good choice.I think that was the best option you had, glad it worked out.