64 Brakes question

[Obyray]

Hi, I have a small problem with the brakes on my 64 tbird. They work great to stop but the pedal comes back very slowing and the brakes drag a bit at the start. If I lift the pedal with my left foot, it lifts with ease and you can feel the brakes release. Any Ideas what I need to do? :confused:
Thanks for the assistance

[Joe Vandatta]

sounds like your vaccum booster, the return spring is part of that assembly.

[JoeD]

Funny you should mention this problem. My '65 does the exact same thing. The vacuum booster was recently replaced with a rebuilt unit by the previous owner (from looking at it, it's clearly a reconditioned unit). Would the return spring be replaced as part of that rebuild? I noticed what appears to be a return spring on the brake pedal under the dash. Is that the spring you are referring to? Are they available new? I don't recall seeing such a spring listed in my couple of T-bird parts catalogs, but I'll take another look.

Thanks for the heads-up. I was just living with lifting the pedal with my foot whenever the brakes started to drag. I'm glad it may be an easy fix.

Joe

[Joe Vandatta]

The return spring is integral with the vaccum booster. Unless you have something binding it should return. There is no other return spring--at least on my 66
Joe dv

[JoeD]

While replacing the dimmer switch on my '65, I took another look at the brake pedal. I've verified that there is indeed a spring connected between the pedal arm and a bracket under the dash. Ford may have done something different in '66 or yours may be missing. If I can find a little time, I'll see if I can post a picture of what it looks like.

Joe

[ 09-15-2002: Message edited by: JoeD ]

[RichTXN]

I just replaced my booster on my '64, and the return spring is internal to the unit. The spring on the floor more proably fell out of the swing-away steering wheel doors (I think).

You might check the little rubber boot on the firewall that covers the push rodd from the brake pedal to the booster unit. It could be binding in there somehow. Mine was rotting and folded up funny (but not binding) when I took out the booster unit.

Another thought, possibly the binding is coming from the master cylinder. It might be worth your time to remove the master cylinder (which is attached to the front of the booster under the hood) and look at the rod coming from the booster into the unit. Perhaps it got bound up with old fluid or even dirt and debris. If so, that might hinder the return of the brake pedal.

One last thought, maybe the hinge on the brake pedal just needs a shot of oil. Does it squeak or scrape when you depress the pedal?

Good luck!

[JoeD]

Although I didn't do the actual work, I know that both the power booster and the master cylinder are brand new (from the seller's records and receipts). Looking under the hood, I can see they're new (or else he spent a LOT of time cleaning & refinishing them to look brand new).

The spring looks like it was meant to be there--it's hooked into a detent in the brake pedal arm, and the other is hooked into a detent on the underside of the dash. It's not loose and clearly doesn't appear to be there by accident.

Of course, just because the parts are new, that doesn't necessarily mean they were installed right (or that the new parts aren't defective--been there & done that). Since it doesn't happen very often, and is so easy to work around (just gently lift on the petal with my big toe), I think I'll just keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't get worse.

If you're interested, I took a couple of pictures of this spring. It wasn't easy to see what the camera was seeing (working upside down with the car in the garage), but you can clearly see where the spring attaches to the brake pedal arm. I can't upload the pictures to this post, but can E-mail them to whomever is interested in seeing them.


Joe

[Joe Vandatta]

Joe, why don't you get a shop manual for your Bird, it will answer once and for all your questions on a number of things.
I seriously doubt if the spring you describe was standard equipment.

[steven]

Hi Obyray, I had the same problem with the brakes on my 66 bird. When I had finnaly got the new engine and trans in the car the brakes worked pretty good. I decided to replace the complete brake system, including the booster. The original booster had the 2 halfs together crimp style. The replacement was a band style. The parts man said the worked the same but when I put it on the pedal would not return and brakes draged until I lifted the pedal with my foot. Went nuts try to figure what I had done wrong. Everything looked good. I had kept the original booster just incase. So I put it back in and the brake pedal worked fine. Had the proper one ordered, put it in and every thing is fine. Don't know if yours is the same thing but it sure does sound like it.
Take care. Steve

[JoeD]

I took a look at the shop manual, and you are correct, there's no mention of such a spring. Perhaps some previous owner rigged it as a way to work around the brake dragging problem. With a car this old and who knows how many past owners, there's bound to be a few surprises in store for me.


Joe

[WT]

Obyray,
My '64 had even a "better" issue with the brakes. The day I drove it home, the brakes locked up completely. I pulled the master cylinder off and discovered that the booster (push) rod to the piston in the master cylinder wasn't adjusted correctly. It has an adjustable rod end; the booster rod and master cylinder piston aren't connected.)If the booster rod isn't set correctly, the booster won't allow the rod to pull back from the master cylinder, thereby maintaining pressure to the wheel cylinders and making the brakes drag and not letting the brake pedal return fully, making you think that there is binding in the system.
There is no return spring externally for the system; it's in the master cylinder on the piston just for the the piston.
The shop manual has the correct min and max extension of the booster push rod from the booster housing (also, a diagram of a gauge that can be made and used for approximate adjustment). :cool:

[JoeD]

That's good to know. Thanks for the helpful hint.

Joe

[Obyray]

Thanks for the help everyone, some great tips as it turned out I was driving to work one day and had a complete brake failure in luckly close to home. I picked up a new booster and master cylinder for far less than I thought and now the brakes are better than my Windstar.
All the best Obyray

[66bird]

Can i ask you where u purchased ur booster and m cylinder, i need both also i believe.

[66bird]

I need a brake booster i jsut found out. So any one selling them new or ebuilt i am intrested