Two Wire Distributor?

[dustinface]

Hey guys! I wanted to first thank all of you for having a resource like this.

I've got a '66 Ford T'Bird w/a 390 4BBL Carb. I just purchased the ol lady about a month ago in quite a few pieces. I've got the parts from the tank to the engine now installed and ready to go, however while I was going through the engine and comparing the information to my Tbird shop manual I noticed something weird.

The distributor has a positive and ground wiring coming out from inside of it. Both of those wires (+ & -) are then hooked to the ignition coil. There then seems to be a wire coming from the firewall to the ( - ) side of the ignition coil. I've looked at the wiring schematics, online and nothing that I see has reference to this type of distributor setup. I then started looking at more of the electrical and noticed a few other interesting things such as the positive side going to what looks like the block. I've attached a few pretty large images of the wiring so you can see a little better.

The reason why I even bring all of this up is that I've been testing the spark. The distributor turns, but the wires are not getting any spark... so I was going to buy a new distributor, starter relay, new wires, etc... but thought I'd get the first question out of the way first.

Is there something missing that I am missing from the ignition coil? Are the wires from the distributor supposed to go to the coil? Has anyone seen a 2 wire distributor, the ones I've researched are all 1 wire.

Any other information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[boaterbob]

Looks like you have a Petronix Ignition setup. Google Petronix trouble shooting they have wiring diagrams and tech support

[Terry64HT]

Boaterbob is correct, you have a Pertronix ignition. The last photo shows the Ignitor module in your distributor, but it's old. Per-Lux changed it's name to Pertronix in 1991, so it's performance may be suspect. 25 years wouldn't be a bad life expectancy.
The black Ignitor wire goes to the "-" on the coil and the red goes to the "+". A switched 12 volt source is also attached to the "+" terminal of the coil. This cannot be the original 12 volt coil wire because that had a resistor to drop the voltage once the engine got running. Pertronix needs a full 12 volts all the time.
If it's not working, consider getting a new Pertronix for about $75.
Hope this helps
Terry
64HT

[dustinface]

Ok. Yes, I did some googling around and did find the company when I opened the Distributor in the first place. I thought it was really weird concerning that the OE only had 1 wire.

I guess now my question is, if I go back to the stock setup (with my pictures above) will I need to change up my wiring everywhere or can I just drop the OE distributor & parts in there and try to start the ol gal again?

BTW, Terry, that is good to know that its old. I was going to contact them and ask them to asses the part, but now that I know that... if wiring will be an issue I can just get a new one or maybe a better replacement (any recommendations?). I thought it was weird because the wires look brand new, but it sat for quite a few years so maybe that was one of the last pieces added to the car before it sat.

Also, based on your information they had it installed incorrectly. When I got the car they had the + wire going to the - side of the coil. I wonder if that did something too. LOL.

Any other information that you could provide me would be excellent and thank you for the info thus far guys! : o)

[boaterbob]

Ignition Systemsfoul_word A Short Course | CarParts.com
Try hot wiring the coil

[boaterbob]

[quote=boaterbob;14968]Ignition Systemsfoul_word A Short Course | CarParts.com
Try hot wiring the coil. You may want to get your volt meter out and see how much voltage you have to the coil when ignition is on and while cranking.

[Terry64HT]

The routing of the wires you describe is weird. It's been a long time since I played with my Pertronix, so I'm not sure if the module has polarity stamped on it. I do know that over the years the wiring colors have changed since I have seen one with white and black, but I can't see them using red for anything other than positive.
Go to the Pertronix site and download the instruction sheet for model 1281. That will give you the wiring setup. It sounds like your setup might have retained the resistor in the circuit, which is more complicated than it has to be. You need a 12 volt source that is switched, eg on only when the key is. The easiest access is to splice into the switched wire at the voltage regulator. On a 64 it's green/red, but yours looks like a 65, so I'm not sure of the color. Easy to check, 12 volts when engine running, nothing when off. That wire goes to the positive side of the coil and the Pertronix module goes red to positive and black to negative.
That should be it. If there was still a resistance in the 12 volt feed to the coil, the Pertronix wouldn't work properly but you would still have had spark.
I think trying to sort wiring out and go back to the old points would be tough given the layout you've described. Modules are available everywhere.
Terry
64HT

[dustinface]

Yes. That's what I've been working against. Its always tougher to jump into someone elses projects without knowing the scope and with the information you guys have provided I have learned a few things.

I called the manufacturer today and they also said that the Ignitor is probably 20 years old (if not older) too, so you were right about that one. He said that it sounds like I have a Positive Ground system, which is probably why I was firstly thrown off (use to Negative Ground setups). The Positive side of the battery is grounded to the block, while the Negative is hooked to the solenoid. He did mentioned that the wires should be black and then black/w/white on the ignitor, rather than red and black, but that its several versions back from what they have now.

I asked them to email me so I can send them the images I have so that they can help me track down what part I should be having. I havent seen it come through yet, so hopefully they send me something today so I can jump in the garage this weekend. He did mention that if it was not hooked up correctly that it could be fried now. The issue I'm going to have now is re'learning what I know and think backwards as far as the Positive ground system.

Something else I did notice while digging into the electrical is that the Voltage Regulator (front drivers side headlamp engine bay) has a black wire coming out of the wire cluster but is just hanging out with nothing hooked into it. That will be fun to track down too (unless you guy know what that should go to, too? lol).

The last thing I can say is that when I first started getting into these issues, when I turned the key my spark plug tester (the fancy light) did flash. However, when I continued to turn the key it stopped. Im pretty sure I just need to keep asking questions and keep my head under the hood I'll get it figured out.

It hurts to be in the Scottsdale area this week, the Goodguys Car Show is going on, cars everywhere and this is the 2nd year out of 5 that I've lived here and haven't been able to take a car in the show with me.

As always, any information you can provide me is always accepted! Look where it's gotten me this far! Thanks.

[boaterbob]

You do not have a positive ground system. Maybe someone put a dead battery in and tried to charge it backwards dunno. A extra wire comes out of the harness that plugs into the reg., But that should be for the radio condenser and that is yellow on a 66, Dunno color on 64. seems like you must get a Jim Osborn wiring diagram book and shop manual to straighten out your wiring situation before you start buying and switching componets.

[Terry64HT]

I agree with Boaterbob, there's no way you have a positive ground system. Things like the heater motor wouldn't work, not to mention the windows (if you have them). I don't even want to think about the starter.....
It would help to know what year this car was so we can identify wire colors.
As he said, you need to sort out what you have before you start installing new components.
Terry
64HT

[boaterbob]

Its a 66, But never seen the voltage Reg. on drivers side on a 66?

[Terry64HT]

It is on a 64 and 65. The side opposite the battery.

[HeadacheGuy]

Only one other note. The Pertronics will work with the resistance wire. This does however give you a failure point. Resistance wire is sheathed right off the igniton switch and can fail at the connector where it goes back into regular wire. With the charging system at 14.4 volt on mine I run about 11 volts at the coil with adequate spark.

[boaterbob]

Yes voltage reg. on drivers side on 66! Don't know what I was thinking..Sorry bout that!

[HeadacheGuy]

On a better computer now with a better monitor and looked at your pictures better. Your battery IS wired backwards. Your black cable is wired to the solenoid which is on your negative post. I had the pleasure of working on a truck once that had a battery that was charged backwards. Oddly enough the starter worked normally as did a lot of the basic electrical. Just about everything electronic was toast but the radio (91 ford truck). Don't put your pertronics in till you are wired as a negative ground or smoke will roll. Alternator diodes (though his survived) and regulator aren't too happy about it either.