Two Wire Distributor?

[Terry64HT]

Boaterbob, your comment about the resistance wire and Pertronix was interesting. I checked the installation instructions for the Pertronix I bought in 2001 and it warned you that the resistance had to be removed or the unit would probably fail. I see the manual posted by the company now shows both ways.
However, I understand that the reason the voltage to the coil was reduced once the engine was running was to eliminate arcing of the points at higher rpm's. Given that a lot of people go to aftermarket coils to increase the spark voltage, it seems counterproductive to reduce the coil input voltage.
Just a thought
Terry
64HT

[HeadacheGuy]

(That was me Terry). Points arcing was the primary reason for the reduced voltage. The other reason was that original coils were designed to run on the lower current draw so they would not fail to overheat. Even modern electronic ignition ran resistance wire for this reason (Ford Dura spark and Chrysler with the dual resistor block, they run the same oil filled coil with a fairly high current). My bird is a great example of how high the current can get. If I leave the main ignition on without starting it my coil will overheat in about 15 minutes and will not start until I cool it down a bit (and if you touch it it gets pretty hot). Pertronics leaves it grounded in a no run situation. If I ran full voltage to it I suspect I would have burned it up by now. I do have an accel flame thrower coil (fancy name for "gee...its chrome") but it really doesn't run any better or look any different on an ocilliscope than a stock coil. Granted you don't leave the key on that long usually but I do when working on it sometimes. About every oil filled standard coil I have ever bought will say on the coil that they must be used with an external resistor. Makes me wonder what Pertronics is thinking. If you keep the current down across the firing transistor it should run cooler and last longer. Look at all the trouble Ford got into with their TFI modules mounted in the distributor due to heat failure and those were also run with resistance wire. That being said I think Pertronics makes a hell of a product. I have never seen one go bad. I do keep a spare in the trunk as I do a lot of highway driving but doubt if I will ever need it.

[Terry64HT]

Headacheguy,
You raise some excellent points worth thinking about. I'm running some version of a "mustard top" coil that I suspect is nothing special. When I get home and put the car on the road, I'll reconnect the dormant wire with the resistance in it and see if there is any noticeable difference. It's gone 14 years with no resistance in the wire to the coil, and I've always been careful not to leave power on if the engine isn't running.
I've now had another thought......I assume in the stock wiring configuration, the "acc" position on the ignition switch does not put power to the coil, but running a separate 12 volt wire from a switched source would. Seems like Pertronix may have outsmarted themselves with the original installation instructions if you use the "acc" position for any time.
Thanks for the info
Terry 64HT

[dustinface]

I just got back from the Goodguys Scottsdale show where I was able to track down a guy with a '65. Probably could have gotten there earlier to find a '66, but it justified my concern (and what I'm reading here). It looks like the guy that had this car before me hooked the + and - terminals incorrectly.

The '65 I saw at the GG show had the black wire going to the block while the red wire was going to the solenoid. I know that is what you all have been telling me, what the manual has been telling me, but I trusted that the car was just correctly wired.

I'm going to post some pictures of MY car and show you that the car is hooked up as a positive ground... but the idiot hooked it up incorrectly. Now the question... do I go back to where I got the car from and leave poo on his doorstep?

So, I guess the first step is to rewire the ground to the ground, the positive to the solenoid and then install the new Ignitor (coming tomorrow). Then go through the rest of the wires coming out and to things and ensure those weren't installed improperly.

[HeadacheGuy]

I think your saving grace here is that the car is old. If you are lucky it will fire right up and you might have to deal with charging issues (also maybe not). If you ever wonder why the starter works both ways, it changes polarity on the armature but also on the field windings which keeps the rotation direction the same. Might be nervous about the guy who put the battery in. Hope he didn't do any other creative wiring. Flaming poo perhaps...hehe. Post if you have more issues, like I said before, I have actually been through this before.

[HeadacheGuy]

Terry, couple of things. If you have gotten by that long with full power I would be pretty confident the coil is ok that way. You are probably better off that way as your burn time and spike KV are going to be better with the higher voltage (In reality I don't think you will see a difference in driveability either way unless you have your carb leaned back). You can however wire the original wire back so it doesn't run on accessory by just taking the section of resistance wire out right at the switch. If yours is like mine it has a bullet connector at the end and you should be able to bypass it. One other thing about the Pertronics (coupled with the higher voltage or not). You may already be doing this. Make sure you are running your plugs at a .045 gap or you loose some of the advantage of the system. You get a mildly lower burn time but a much hotter spark which fires lean mixtures off better. With a good platinum plug installed longevity of the plugs is a non issue and the coil will be taxed just a little more. The pertronics unit will take the extra saturation time just fine. Iv'e toyed with the idea of going .060 but the only thing gained is if I want to go leaner on the carb. 390's are great engines but valve burners if you get them too lean. Hey...guess I didn't buy the car because it got great mileage.

[Terry64HT]

My car is a bit of an oddball. It was originally a transistorized ignition, but some time before I got it, it was converted to a regular system. All the transistorized components are still there, they just aren't connected to anything. There is a ballast resistor beside the transistorized ignition control box on the passenger side wheel well and the amplifier is still mounted behind the dash, but it appears that the car was rewired to operate normally. The 64 manual and wiring diagrams had no info on the transistorized ignition, and it wasn't until I came across a 64 manual that I found out anything about it.
When I bought a Pertronix, I just ran a wire from the green/red at the voltage regulator and put the module in. Back then (I haven't looked into it lately), the Pertronix wouldn't work with TI.
Terry

[HeadacheGuy]

30 plus years in this business and I have never seen Fords transistorized ignition. Production electronic ignition didn't happen until 73 for Ford (and GM). First I ever read about what you had was in a Ford forum. I suspect it was probably troublesome or too complicated for average repair shops back then which is why it was converted back to points but I love reading about this stuff. That was pretty cutting edge back then as were the other neat stuff on our birds. I see sequential T/S are on the Mustangs now. Pretty sure that started with us. I still contend we have the coolest dashboards ever made.

[Terry64HT]

In my previous post I should have said "65 manual". The 64 manual had a description and a schematic, but there was nothing in the wiring diagrams section, and it wasn't listed in the index. Since there was no mention of it, I had no reason to thumb through Section 9, so I didn't come across anything until some time after I had the car. In any event, I had already figured out that it was no longer operational.
My 1964 is the only one I have ever seen with the transistorized ignition box near the battery. It looks neat and has a great big decal telling everyone what it is (or is supposed to be).
Terry
64HT

[HeadacheGuy]

If you get a chance post a picture of the box. It intrigues me. I love old technology.

[Terry64HT]

Don, I'll be glad to. However, I'm in Florida for the winter and the car is in Canada. I'll get home early April and will take a bunch of photos of the various components.
At my age, I'm also liable to forget, so it might be a good idea to rattle my food dish about then.
Terry
64HT

[Terry64HT]

Don, I'm home now and have uncovered the Bird. Here's a couple of photos of the transistorized ignition setup.
The first couple are the box beside the battery and the last is the amplifier that mounts behind the lower panel on the passenger side of the dash. It's currently sitting on a bench because I have to replace the vacuum motor for the recirculating air door in the heat/ac plenum (yet another nasty story).
Terry
64HT

[HeadacheGuy]

That is way cool. Amazes me that they had it back then but really amazes me that it took them ten yrs beyond to make it stock production. That's a keeper.