AC conversion

[Terry64HT]

I'm considering replacing my old Tecumseh compressor with a Sanden type and going to 134a on my 64. Should I replace my lines as well?
Secondly, I see that the suction line goes through the firewall to the evaporator. Can I replace this from the engine compartment or do I need to get under the dash?
Any advice would be appreciated.

Terry
64HT

[stubbie]

Hi Terry

I'm thinking of doing the same with my 64 bird. How did this work out for you? Was it worthwhile?

Cheers Phil

[Terry64HT]

I haven't got to the installation yet, the car is stored for the winter while I'm south, and when I get it out there are always things to finish up or repair. I began refurbishing the door panels and filling all the cracks last fall, so I've been doing the last work prior to repainting the plastic.
I have decided against removing the evaporator and instead plan to replace the hoses I can get to. I figure that there is no more than an inch or two of hose on the interior side of the firewall, so if I replace up to there, diffusion through the hoses (if any) will be minimal.
I purchased a Sanden type compressor refit kit which included the compressor, mounting bracket, hoses and all necessary fittings. I also bought a Mastercool crimper to make the hoses. I plan to crimp new fittings as close to the firewall as I can get and replace everything in the engine compartment. I have already painted the compressor semi-gloss black to match the existing, so I'm hoping it will be a lot less noticeable than the raw aluminum.
I'll let you know when I get further along.
Terry64HT

[lslevin]

Hi Guys, sorry to dredge up this old thread but it speaks well to where I am with a 65 Landau just purchased. Air blows, clutch engages but no cold air. First step is we are evacuating any fluid in the system on Monday to see where we are. I too, would like to do the Sanden conversion discussed. Any news that you could share? How did it work? Problems, etc?

I have been told by numerous people you are well ahead cost wise to convert with modern compressor and start over. Would appreciate comments. This is my first A/C classic and learning on the fly. Down here in Florida we need the air. Went to my first show with the car last night and IT WAS HOT!!!!

Thanks, Larry Slevin 248-231-8990

[Terry64HT]

It all depends on what you can re-use from your existing system. If everything else is good, and you only need a compressor, you can buy a re-manufactured YorK (or possibly a Tecumseh) for about $250. If you also need a clutch, pretty well double that. A Sanden-type with a good mount adapter will usually be in the range of $200. Remember, the A/C part of the ventilation is just a small box housing the evaporator behind the chrome vents above the radio. Unlike present day units, none of the heater/defroster ducts and plenums are used except for the part that brings the fresh air in on the passenger side. You don't need a big, high end compressor for this small system.
Next to consider are the hoses. If they are still good, they'll work with either compressor, but I'm not sure if there are adapters available to go from the original fittings to a Sanden-type compressor. Likewise with the evaporator and thermostat. If it's good, it doesn't matter which compressor is connected to it.
In my case, I'd had it with trying to make the old compressors work and decided to go with a new Sanden-type. My intention was to replace the hoses in the engine bay back to as close to the firewall as I could go because I didn't want to get into pulling the dash to get to the evaporator connections. I bought a kit with the compressor, dryer, hoses and all necessary fittings. I also bought a Mastercool crimping kit.
I was going to do all the replacement myself and then take it to my regular mechanic to get it evacuated and charged. After looking at it, he convinced me that the existing hoses were probably ok, the argument that 134-A will pass through the hoses is generally a red herring, and he would prefer to do all the work so he was sure of how it was done. His plan was to only cut the existing hoses where he had to crimp on new fittings at the compressor.
That's the way I went and it's worked great except for the problems with the controls. But this post has gone more than long enough (sorry), and I will recount my control adventures in another post.
The short of it is, if the hoses, thermostat or evaporator are ok, then either type of compressor will work fine. If there`s anything wrong, then it has to be fixed no matter what compressor you use.
I painted my compressor semi-gloss black before I installed it and it blends in well. It`s quieter, puts less strain on the engine and puts out a ton of cold air. If you`re not going concours, give it some thought.
Sorry for the long post
Terry
64HT (cold)

[HeadacheGuy]

Terry is on the money here. I added a/c on mine using a Sanden compressor. Bracketing is pretty simple and Sanden compressors are much smoother than a York / Tecumseh. There is actually some truth to the non barrier hose leaking R134a but it is a long term issue. I went the full blown package as mine did not have air but used the factory air dash. After you fix yours ,be it low on gas or stuck expansion valve, if you are unhappy with the head pressures I think the condenser I used from classic air auto is pretty efficient and they do sell their stuff separately. Loss of mileage for me was about 1 mile per gallon running the air a lot.

[lslevin]

Good deal. Our car is not concours, nor is it a survivor, but it is mostly original, so I want to try the original stuff first. Hopefully it will work. The idea of cutting the hoses and resplicing is a great solution. Nobody wants to take that dash apart (yuch). Should know tomorrow what direction we need to take. Will post again and let you know. Thanks again. Larry

[Terry64HT]

To clarify, I decided against cutting and resplicing the hoses, and instead cut them at the proper length and crimped on new fittings at the compressor. Because of the way the Sanden-type installs with the fittings on the side, the existing hoses are long enough to be cut and make a clean installation.
By the way, I have an almost unused Mastercool crimping kit, if anyone is interested. Makes beautiful crimps in all 3 hose sizes.
Terry
64HT

[lslevin]

Terry and Headacheguy: Well mixed results today with the system. We were able to charge the system. The shop said they had a lot of trouble "balancing" the high and low pressure sides. Never heard that terminology used before and they really did not explain it well.

The system is now making cool air but not the chilled refrigerated air you would like. You can also see spark arcing coming off the clutch. I suspect it is now time to move on to a new compressor, dryer, etc.

Good news is the system functions well...just seems to be worn out. Thanks again for your help. Larry Slevin

[HeadacheGuy]

Congratulations on getting any cool air out of a 50 A/C system. Now you roll your sleeves up. Arcing off the compressor and they are having trouble with the pressures......I am suspecting too high of high side pressures and the clutch is slipping. Reason I am responding is to tell you that a new compressor probably will not cure the problem and actually might make it worse or burn the Sanden up. Your system does not protect itself for too high of pressure. Ideally you really dont want to see over 300 high side and around 30 - 35 psi low side when the system is stable (all depends on ambient temp and humidity...these figures are NOT cast in stone). I assume you have retrofited to R134A at full system capacity (there used to be a recommendation of going 80% but we found out this was a load of crap and ate compressors due to bad oiling). IF your high side is creeping towards 400 psi and you get crap for cooling you have a few choices. 1: Replace the condenser to a newer cross flow style (all modern cars have these now) as opposed to the serpentine one you have now. Place I got my A/C from sells them and it does the job pretty well. 2: Do whatever you can to increase the airflow. This means a better fan - I assume you have a factory fan clutch (make sure it works). If not convert to one. Other option is an electric fan. This can be a small pusher on the outside in conjunction with the mechanical (which you really don't have the room for) or replace the mechanical one will a puller where your fan is now. 3: Make sure you have a shroud (it helps but not a cure-all). If you don't have one the Tbird places online sell one and 2 piece designs. 4: Make damn sure they not only flushed the mineral oil out of the system but they drained (yes it does have a fill plug and reservoir) the compressor. The mineral oil does not hurt anything per say but it displace volume. They should have used ester oil to replace it but if you go to the Sanden you want PAG oil. Very long story short.....These cars convert ok but don't cool as efficiently in older systems. Any way you go however (since you already may be fighting a slipping clutch) have your mechanic wire in a high side compressor cut out switch. Post their typical pressure readings and also if the cooling gets normal with a box fan running in front of the car. Not sure if you needed or wanted this info but I hate to see anyone throw away $$$ on unnecessary repairs.

[HeadacheGuy]

I may have spouted prematurely. I assumed the arcing was sparks from the clutch face. If it is a small amount from the rear of the clutch it may be from the brushes in the back which is actually a normal condition.....I forget about the old ways sometimes.....