Upgrading Stereo System

[asarkisi]

My 'Bird came factory-equipped with an AM/FM radio with front dash (center) and rear seat (center) speakers. As the sound quality from the present system is showing its age, I'd like to upgrade the system. My initial thought is to get a new AM/FM stereo head unit, but it must fit within the existing radio's space in the dash (e.g., Custom Auto Sound), abandon the front dash speaker, install door speakers in the same location as found in the 1966 model, and convert the rear center speaker to a sub-woofer. I don't care about having cassette or CD capability, but the ability to discretely plug-in a portable MP3/iPod would be nice. Questions:

1. Does the 1964 door sheet metal have provisions for speakers to be mounted in the lower front corners? If so, what size works? Are there any special considerations for wiring these speakers?
2. Does anyone know of a sub woofer that can fit in the rear trim where the present rear center speak is located? In know the rear center speaker is a 5"x7" size. I am not afraid to make my own mounting bracket and baffle, but I would like to re-use the existing mounting studs/wing-nuts.
3. I do not like having to fit the car cover over the fixed mast antenna. Any recommendations or cautions about switching to a power antenna?
4. I recall reading somewhere to be careful about the vintage of a Custom Auto Sound radio. Which should I avoid? Which are good?

Thanks much.

By the way, I have succcessfully repaired my rear quarter windows. I replaced the power motor gears (parts from Mac's). It wasn't wasy to re-assemble, but it was rewarding to knock a task off the punch list. But as I had to remove the rear seat to gain access to the quarter window modules, that old center speaker was whispering "now is a good time to upgrade the stereo and replace me!"

[redbird1]

I would assume your stock system is similar to the 66 Birds, so the first thing you should know is, stay as far away from custom autosound as you can.
Way too many horror stories concerning quality of work, and quality of sound.
Most companies that say they convert your stock radio to a modern design, are using custom autosound products.
Now, if you are more interested in originality, I can't help you, but if you care to alter your dash as I did, then click on this link and see what was involved in putting in my new audio system.
I gotta tell you, the sound is incredible, and worth every minute it took me to install it.
LOVEfords Forum
Bob.

[richie3002]

I finally ditched custom auto sounds after the second head unit they sent me went to crap. I finally decided to get a regular stereo. It looks nice to screw the new stereo underneath the dash on passenger side. You can repair those screw holes decently if you needed too. I put kicker 6x7 in the front and rear since my 64 thunderbird has similar speaker setup. I then bout two alpine 6x9 and bought two 6x9 boxs to keep the originality. then put two 12s in the back it sounds great.

[Dave ESPI]

I had a 66 and made the mistake of putting an Autosounds with trunkmounted- multi disk CD changer. THe only nice thing was the speakers that mounted in the stock brackets, I never got good reception and even after installing 3 inline noise filters I still didn't get clear sound. What did work well was my 300 watt PlanetAudio amp and twin 15inchBlaupunkt subs in the trunk with techno and acid-rock death metal playing :)

Not sure if that helps, but I'm in the market now for audio for my '63 so I will update with what I decide to do in a few weeks

[Gary Tayman]

Being both a dealer and a 64 T-Bird owner, maybe I can make a few comments here.

Custom Autosound has quite a reputation, and much of it is earned. Their older USA-1 through 6 stereos were awful; poor quality, lousy performance, tiny buttons you can't half read, and a digital display that required a flashlight to read. And that was before it broke down. I signed up with them many years ago because I liked their Dual Voice Coil Speakers -- pushed the speakers but only sold USA stereos if a customer actually approached me for one. However, over the years their attitudes have changed and so have their products. Newer versions, particularly with rocker switches instead of buttons, are very much improved. The problem? They were STILL called USA-1, 2, 5, etc. I spent much time with them on the phone, trying to convince them to change their model numbers.

They did. The newer versions are known as "Concours Series", and the main models are the USA-230, the 630, and a few speciality models such as the USA-66 which is a repro AM/FM for the 66 Mustang. These newer stereos are not in the same category as a high-end replacement stereo for a modern car, but they're a vast improvement over the old ones and they make for a decent all-around stereo for an older vehicle.

The Stereo Conversions are hand-built by dealers such as (ahem), using circuit boards made by Antique Automobile Radio of Palm Harbor, Florida. They are very good performers if I must say so myself. The radio looks totally original but plays FM when turned on. Turn it off and immediately back on and it switches to AM. If the original radio is AM/FM, band switching works normally. The "kit" includes an LED that mounts in the dial -- personally I hate these; it's annoying and I hate the idea of keeping the dial original while drilling a hole in it for a light. I leave it out unless somebody wants it.

Speakers: Thunderbirds in all their fanciness just weren't designed for upgrading souns systems. There is a single 4x10 speaker in the dash, an optional 5x7 in the rear, and that's all. The Custom Autosound DVC-3001 works in the front, the DVC-3015 fits in the back (* big asterisk here), and you can put both left outputs to the front, both rights to the back, and have full stereo effect.

Big asterisk: I'm not a fan of the 5x7 speaker, that ANYONE makes. The Custom Autosound seems as good as anyone else but that's not saying much. Also, this speaker mounts by two tabs on the ends, and the speaker hangs in mid-air with no baffle. Go to Home Depot or Lowes and get some foam weatherstripping to fill in the gap. Better yet, just wedge the speaker between the two posts so it presses against the metal package tray -- it won't go anywhere. Even with this, and even though a lot of customers have bought these, I'm just not happy.

An alternative: Undercover Stealth Speakers. This is a pair of speakers designed to fit under the front seats. I LOVE the sound of these; to the point where I use a pair to demo Stereo Conversions at shows. My problem? I have power seats on both sides, and the hardware is in the way.

Someday, yes someday, when I get caught up with all my work and have lots of spare time to mess with the Bird, I'd like to try fitting these Undercovers in my car anyway. If they fit, they'll stay, and I'll use the DVC in the dash for the front and the undercovers for the rear. If they DON'T fit, I'm going to try and fit a 6x9 DVC in place of that rear 5x7. If it fits I guarantee it'll be a BIG improvement.

Subwoofer -- I like the idea, not to shake the neighborhood but to supply the bass that you just don't get with many small speakers. There are satellite speaker systems for the home, for computer sound, why not for a car? I have yet to find something that fits and works well; if I discover something I'll put it in my own car, then offer it to others.

[richie3002]

I am a sad owner of a custom auto sounds 230 radio. I have had two decks blow up on me, and they are in my opinion poorly enginered. The factory chrome bezel that should go over the radio does not fit, and they are plastic and cheap. I am sorry but, I have talked to many car stereo installers, all who hate custom auto sounds. They blow up easily and do not produce the sound they should. I had problems with even getting enough power to my speakers. The 1964 thunderbird can be fitted with two brand new fantastic kicker speakers. The front requires a custom fabricated bracket and the back works with the bracket you get from the buying the speakers. DO NOT BUY CUSTOM AUTOSOUNDS OR ANY OF THEIR SPEAKERS.

[Gary Tayman]

What exactly failed on your 230, and what were you using for speakers? As for other dealers, had they done any work recently or are they speaking from units made 5 or more years ago? Every so often I hear about how much the USA Stereos stink; when I press them on it I find their experience has been with an older one.

Although most stereo orders are drop shipped, customer feedback has generally been acceptable. However I've had a LOT of DVC and Stealth speakers pass through here and they're wonderful. I actually removed Kickers (and Pioneers) from my T-Bird in favor of the DVC's.

A couple more comments: the power ratings of the 230 and 630, 200 and 240 watts respectively, are peak. A conversion, rated at 180 watts RMS, will blow away a 230 on the bench; it's approximately equal to the 630.

Also, when the 630 and 230 first came out, there was a fake-stereo problem that lasted for a short while. Custom Autosound originally made their own stereos; as far-fetched as this sounds they also built Kenwood stereos by contract. Yes, CAM (Custom Autosound Manufacturing) built Kenwoods. Later in an effort to improve reliability, they contracted the stereos be built by another vendor. The later USA 1-6's with the rocker switches were built by this vendor. When they offered the new 230/630 series, they rejected the prototypes made by this vendor, and went to yet another vendor -- who still makes them. That first vendor jumped the gun and built thousands of 230's and 630's that CAM did not buy. What to do? These guys set themselves up as a major distributor and started contacting dealers, offering USA-230's and 630's at a price below that of CAM. Several dealers indeed purchased these stereos, were were NOT CAM-approved but rejects. Indeed, these guys contacted me and I turned them down. Lawsuit city, these guys removed the CAM logo and continued selling them until they ran out. But there are enough of them to cause confusion and raise quality concerns with the real product.

The DVC speakers are made by contract, by the same factory that makes a lot of other name-brand speakers, many of them high-end. Those who purchase everything based on name brands have a lot to learn. The DVC's over the years have jumped factories as well, but no deceitful practices to my knowledge in the speaker department.


Again, my own experiences, I've shared.

[Dave ESPI]

Will the DVC under seat ones fit in a 63 also ?

[Gary Tayman]

The Undercover Stealth Speakers are 8"x11"x3", or about the size of a ream of paper. Two speakers of course. For T-Birds, there is generally no problem unless you have power seats, in which case the hardware is in the way. I don't know if the speakers will fit around the seat hardware.

[asarkisi]

So Gary, how do I assure I get a good one? Or should I send my existing radio chassis to someone to re-gut it for modern circuitry? I recall there was someone in Toledo Ohio. Does anyone know the name or contact info?

[Gary Tayman]

PM has been sent.

[OnYrMrk]

My suggestion is to have a custom shop build out your kick panels and add a pair of 6.5" component speakers there. Then blow off any rear speakers and add one or two 12s in the trunk for bass. Purchase a head unit that will run 3way active setup and add a 5 channel amplifier. JL audio/Boston Acoutics both make superb 5 channel amplifiers. One amp, one head unit, 5-6 speakers. KISS it. Keep it simple simon!

Your imaging will be spectacular, the sounds excellent, and if tuned right, the whole system will sound better than any factory system in any NEW car on the road.

This is what I will be doing with my 64.

BTW, I am a Car Audio Sound Quality Judge for the International Auto Sound Challenge Association (IASCA), United States Autosound Competition International (USACi) and Mobile Electronics Challenge Association (MECA).

I have competed in Car Audio for over 25 years and continue to compete today.

--Joe

[MWGreen]

Hello Gary. Do you still stand behind the Custom Audio Sound? I have a 63 T-bird that I am looking to replace the radio/speaker. I will, because of your post buy a set of under the seat speakers.
Thank you,
Mike

[Gary Tayman]

Originally Posted by MWGreen

Hello Gary. Do you still stand behind the Custom Audio Sound? I have a 63 T-bird that I am looking to replace the radio/speaker. I will, because of your post buy a set of under the seat speakers.
Thank you,
Mike

This was posted a few months back, and I just saw it. However yes, I can get these for you.

Looking through the thread, there is some clarification, and a lot has changed since my last post.

First off, stereos: Custom Autosound has made some crap in the past, and over the years has improved dramatically. Their current USA-230 is third generation. They have also just introduced a new USA-740. So there is hope for them yet -- however I'll also state that the products are consumer grade; similar to stereos that you would buy in any department store.

The CONVERSIONS have changed dramatically. So much so that AAR now probably thinks I'm Satan. About 4 years ago they came out with a new version, and it was a big step downhill. To be honest I was looking to get out of the business, into something else. Then, just in time, someone actually called me and said he was a design engineer in Detroit. Yes indeed. We worked together on a project which resulted in the new Aurora Design FMR Stereo Receiver. One day he sent me prototype #1, which I still have here, and it was such a huge improvement over ANY AAR product that I immediately began offering them -- with a short wait for production to kick in. AAR called to nastily cut me off as a dealer! Today, most everyone who offers conversions now use the Aurora products.

Speakers: I became a dealer for Custom Autosound, not for the stereos but for the speakers. The DVC, kicks, and Undercovers are nice products. I currently have two VC speakers in my 1964 Thunderbird -- both left channels to the front, both rights to the back. Sound quality is okay but not great -- as good as you can get with 4x10 or 5x7 speakers. Yes, I've tried Kickers, Pioneers, and other brands and none are great in those sizes in my opinion.

I have a pair of Undercover I's; they sound nice but won't fit with power seats. There is a new product, called "The System", which is powered and has a subwoofer and two satellite speakers. The satellites look like small A/C vents. I asked the designed, why do this? Why not make the satellites fit in original locations? He said they're working on it, and since then he retired. BUT -- I think these satellites will fit under the seats, and one day I'll try it -- and put the sub under the back seat. If it all fits, and I like it, I'll promote it.