'64 intermittent start

[TerryKerr]

Hi, about every 5th start, I get nothing, no click, hum nothing.
Lights come on strong, battery is strong. I jump from another battery sometimes starts, sometimes doesn't. I'm thinking my ground, (battery) ground looks old but is clean? Maybe solenoid? How can I check it out? Maybe the steering neutral switch, it catches if I move the steering column and I don't know it? Taking the car on a ferry soon - can't take the embarassment of a no start. Called a starter place, he said the symptons don't sound like the starter, I agree because when the current is right it grabs. Any ideas? Sure appreciate it.
Terry - Vancouver BC

[Ken in MN]

Terry,
Sounds like the neutral safety switch. Try holding the shift lever up when turning the key. Does it start then? If so, the switch needs adjusting and/or the lower steering column bushing is shot or missing.

Also, check the battery to frame ground connection. It sounds like it's okay but the car needs a GOOD ground to turn over the starter.

As a last resort, you can jump across the neutral safety switch to see if that's the problem. CAUTION: If you do this, the car will start in any gear and you could crash into something or someone.

Good luck finding the problem.

[TerryKerr]

Thank you Ken,
I changed the ground cable, putting a 1/0 guage.
Then changed the solonoid out, with a generic one. Nothing.
I re-installed the old one it started. The old sol looked like it was installed
upside down, maybe to allow the wiring to follow a less restrictive path.
So of course I installed the replacement the same way, nothing.
I'm thinking it doesn't matter which way they are installed - do you know?
I will try the neutral sw, thanks for the hazard alert re-starting in any gear, sometimes in haste you don't think of all consequences in jumping.
Does your bird have a brake relay mod on the left behind the w/s fluid bag?
I tried to purchase one from Larry's Thunderbird, they don't show it.
This is another problem with my brake lights, coming on but very slowly and only at the extreme bottom of my pedal.

[Ken in MN]

Terry,
The orientation of the solonoid has no effect on its function. Just be sure that the correct wires are on the correct poles.
I don't know anything about a brake relay by the washer bag. Mine has nothing there except the washer pump. But, I have a '65 and things are different (very) between the '64 and '65. And I have a convert so lots of stuff is in the trunk.
Slow brake lights is a puzzle. Usually, they are ON or OFF and nothing in between. Always check for clean grounds, though. Weak ground connections can manifest in the strangest ways - some that you can't imagine. The brake switch on mine is up underneath the dash. You can jump across those contacts too, to check and see if the switch is dirty. You'll need an assistant for that check because once you're down there, you won't want to get out every time to check light status.
Keep trying - the solution is out there somewhere...

[TerryKerr]

Thank you Ken, I've decided to take her on vacation to the Gulf Islands, I won't be driving at night, during the day I can cheat and use the parking lites for brake lites - it's a pain. I will check out grounds etc when I get back.
Let you know how I make out. Terry, Vancouver Canada

[67Malibu]

Terry, the quickest test of the ground circuit is the use a heavy wire(battery cable heavy) and connect to both heavy posts on the starter Solenoid. Effectively you have now replaced the solenoid contacts with the wire. If it cranks then the current path is OK from battery-through starter-engine-battery. The ground to the frame is seperate and usually about a 10 gauge wire from the battery to the radiator support. There are also grounds from the engine and transmission to the frame often. I can't say for sure on your car as I'm primarily a GM,Audi,Chrysler,Volvo owner..
Another test you can do is use a 14 gauge wire from the battery + to the solenoid pick terminal. This should also cause the starter to spin and basically bypasses the ignition switch, neutral safty switch and the bulkhead connector at the firewall.

[John L]

Terry, was it your neutral switch? I have a 65 flare bird and my dome lights and headlights come on, but nothing else works. This just started all of a sudden. I checked the terminals, battery is good. No dash lights, no radio, nothing but the headlights and dome lights. I was thinking maybe the starter switch, or starter relay, or maybe the neutral switch.

John

[Harley Eaton]

Terry: Are you using the Ford ground cable on your battery? - that's
the one with the chassis ground lug near the center of the cable. The brake relay relay you are referring to (1964 only) would be very easy to make yourself. Use the wire from the brake light switch to activate the relay that would connect the battery power to the brake lights.