BODY ON FRAME ALIGNMENT

[TOM WRIGHT]

I installed a new suspension on my 57 bird and noticed that the rear wheels are not centered. The gap between tire and wheel cover differs by over one inch. I was told this is a common problem with the 57 bird. The body is mounted on the frame cockeyed.
How hard of a job is it to aligne the body with the frame. How many body to frame mounts are there?
Has anyone done this who can walk me through it?
Thank you.
Tom Wright

[ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: TOM WRIGHT ]

 

[Brian]

I'm doing a frame up now, but am a novice:

I could email you a picture of where the mounts are: 18 total: 4 in the trunk, 4 in the engine area, and 10 in the cockpit.

If you have to re-align the body (pivot it left or right over the frame), it seems to me a major job. I don't know if that's the solution to your problem, but I wouldn't want to do it (this is my last time hopefully).

Did you install front and rear suspension?
Is the gap the same at opposite ends of the car?

Assuming you dialed in camber and caster; is it shimmed differently than before?

Good luck.

 

[nomadbird]

Tom,

Brian gave you the straight scoop. He has very recent experience with the body/frame game.

Before you shift the body on the chassis, the following items should be checked in the rear suspension:
(1) Front bushing in rear spring should be checked for condition and protrusion distance out of spring eye.
(2) Locating stud in center of spring must be straight, unbroken and seated in spring seat hole.
(3) Rubber bushings (4 per side) should be in good condition in rear spring eye and frame hanger.
(4) Shackles must be positioned so the spring eye is between the hanger and the frame rail.
This probably sounds elementary, but you would be surprised how many cars are running around with one or more of these items that need attention. There was a '56 here in town whose right rear tire rubbed on the skirt during right turns. Seven dollars worth of rear bushings solved his problem.

After checking all the above items and you have the axle/frame relationship set properly and your tire still rubs the skirt; then you may have to shift the body on the frame. No Biggee. Let us know how your rear axle mounting inspection comes along and then we can describe the body shifting procedure.

Good Luck, Tom

 

[TOM WRIGHT]

All springs, bushings,et all are installed to spec. rubber mounts are in place and torque is to spec. Car was aligned both front and rear. Both front and rear suspension was replaced, all new springs, bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, shocks, the whole nine yards. The car drives great. It always had a problem rubbing the fender skirt when turning in one direction. I think the installation of the suspension is correct and to spec.
I was told tne body to frame mis alignment is a fairly common problem with the 57.
Local body shop wants $600.00 for the job. I did not think it would be that big of a deal to loosen the mounts get 7 or 8 buds over and straighten it up. Your comments are welcome.
Thank you
Tom Wright

[ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: TOM WRIGHT ]

[ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: TOM WRIGHT ]

 

[nomadbird]

O.K. Tom,

Apparently you're satisfied the suspension front and rear is up to snuff. Here comes the body shift: Remove the top, seat, carpet, passenger compartment floor insulation and trunk mat. Now all your body bolts (18) are visible. Loosen all bolts. As bad as you believe the displacement is, I suggest removing two bolts and try prying with good heavy drift pins. Try the bolts on the passenger side behind the seat and the one at the back of the trunk on the passenger side. Two people should pry simultaneously.

If that doesn't work, get 4 guys one at each trunk corner (trunk open) and one at each rear wheel opening, lift and shift. If you use the "lift & shift" method, have the doors open to prevent paint damage. You should be able to fine tune the adjustment with a couple of big drift pins now.
Let us know how this worked for you. Tom

[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: nomadbird ]

 

[TOM WRIGHT]

Tom and Brian,
Thank you for your advise. I will post and let you know how I made out. I will be doing this in about 2-3 wks.
Thank you again.
Tom Wright

 

[TOM WRIGHT]

OK,
I found 16 body mounts for sure. 10 in the cockpit, 4 in the trunk, and 2 in behind the engine just in front of the fire wall. I think the other 2 are up by the radiator?

2 body mounts in the trunk have hole just big enough for the bolt to pass through the frame. I have removed these bolts thinking that I am going to have to drill out the bolt holes when the body is shifted. All the other mounts appear to have ample clearance.
Am I missing anything?
Your thoughts are welcome.
Tom Wright

 

[Brian]

The rear most bolts go thru the floor, then a stiffener: my stiffener is very rusted, and both bolts snapped upon removal. However, it appears that the thru holes are about 7/8" in diameter, which should allow some movement, as the bolts are not that wide.

The next two holes (over the wheels) are also about 7/8" in diameter.

Yes, the last two you are looking for are next to the radiator. There is a stud mounted in the radiator frame, and the body slips over the stud, and is held there buy a nut, with spacers under, and washers.

 

[TOM WRIGHT]

Tom and Brian,
Thank you both for your advise. All went well. I had to remove several of the body bolts to get the body loose from the frame. After that I used a floor jack to break the body loose from the frame. After that 6 of my friends lifted the body over. We moved it just about a 1/4". That is plenty. I feel if this car has been this way for 45 years it doesn't need to be perfect, just ok.
I am going to retorque the body bolts this weekend. When I do I will be using LOCKTIGHT on the threads.
What torque should be used on the bolts?
I thought 40-50 would be ok?
Thanks again.
Tom Wright

 

[s56]

The specification calls for 18-30#. 45 years later, I'd opt for 30#.

 

[nomadbird]

Tom,

I strongly urge you to avoid using LOC-TITE in this application. Thread locking compound may cause the captivating portion of the cage nuts to break when someone tries to loosen them again. The nuts will just spin as the bolt head is being turned. All of a sudden a one man job becomes a two man job. Simply use new lockwashers under the bolt heads.

Torque values can be mis-leading when dealing with old grungey threads. Somewhere in the 40-60 ft.lbs range seems reasonable.

Tom

P.S. Now that the body is broken loose, it should be easy to make fine adjustments with a big heavy drift pin.

P.P.S. I see Stephen found the printed torque values. Use his and ignore mine.

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: nomadbird ]

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: nomadbird ]