New Flare Bird guy

[mkoebra95]

Hello all. I purchased a 65 Thunderbird last fall and have recently started restoring it. I made a general introduction here.

A little more detail about the car and my plans.

I'm pretty certain the car is a 65 landau with a 390. The build/VIN tag on the driver's side door confirms that. I haven't looked for the other tags yet to see if they match. The title transferred quickly with no hick-ups from DMV for what it's worth.

I say "pretty sure" because a couple of the details on the car don't match the info in one of the books I bought to help with the project and it's pretty damn easy to swap out a door or build plate from another car. The details that have me slightly scratching my head come from William Wonder's Thunderbird Restoration Guide which shows that the wire rims I have on my Tbird (Kelsey Hayes 14"ers?) were discontinued as an option midway thru the 64 year. No worries, they could be aftermarket (or the restoration book may be wrong). I've read the front disks were too big for the wire wheels and my center caps are red. FWIW, the spare tire is the same kind of wheel. The other thing is the roof sail panel is a Tbird vice the "S" and the structure of the bracing on the underside of the hood looks like the pictures of the late 65 thru 66 ones. It does have sequential turn signals.

The build tag from the driver's door reads:
63B F or P (it is scratched badly) 55 22M 72 1 4
Using my magic decoder ring, I see the car is a landau (63B), it was originally painted Lt blue (F) or Palomino Metallic (P), the interior should be crinkle all-vinyl red with head rests, it was built in December (M but don't know what the 22 means), it has a 3.00: 1 open rear end (1) and it has the 3spd cruise-o-matic. The VIN does start with a 5.

Anyway, I purchased some pubs to help with my project...
Reproduced Ford literature:
65 Shop manual
65 Wiring Diagram Manual
65 Feature and Specification Manual
65 Body/Interior Assembly Manual
65 Electrical Assembly Manual
65 Registered Owner's Manual
Additionally, I bought
Thunderbird Restoration Guide 1958-1966 by William Wonder

When I purchased the car, it ran decently under its own power and most of the absolutely necessary electrical equipment worked: headlights, taillights, turn signals and indicators, interior lights, wipers and fan blowers. I've seen the power windows go up and down under their own power though they've since stopped working. There is visible surface rust though there doesn't seem to be huge cancer rust anywhere. The landau top needs to be replaced and the overwhelming majority of the rubber trim parts look original and are therefore rotted to hell and back. The shifter has the standard out- of-tolerance play in it that serves as my anti-theft device now (you guys know what I'm talking about: gotta move the shift lever into the sweet spot to get the car to kick over). The water pump is leaking from where it matches up with the engine on the driver's side.

My goal when purchasing the Bird in Sept of 2010 was to do minor work on it to keep it running as I did cosmetic work that would help with drivability (weather seals, steering column/ shifter restoration) as I spend most of my time and money on my other project car: 1995 Mustang Cobra convertible that's getting a twin turbo upgrade. The Cobra doesn't run (yet) so any work I do to the TBird has to be able to be completed over a weekend with one week lay up tops. IOW, I don't need two non-running project cars...

Once the Cobra is running under it's own power, I'm going to strip the Tbird down to parade rest/bare metal and fix/restore the cosmetics and power train.

Since I've had the car, I found that one of the plug wires was broken so it was running on seven cylinders, the Holley carb was leaking profusely from the accelerator pump and bottom of the bowls and the battery would not hold a charge. Not such a big deal. Everyone needs a car that won't start without jumping it, stalls at stop signs/lights as it drips raw gas on the hot engine...

I'll do a post about what I did to take care of those problems.

Later,

-Matt.

[kevindeluca66]

Hi Matt just to let you know that the 22 after the m in the date code means that the car was built on December 22,1964.

[Gary Tayman]

Matt,

Welcome to the Thunderbird community! I too have a 64, purchased as a project car, and unfortunately has become the victim of bad service so it has its share of problems. However when it runs, it's fantastic.

I'm curious as to where you are in Maryland. I grew up in Camp Springs, right outside Andrews AFB. I've lived in Sarasota for over 25 years however and never looked back. BTW, my car was an abandoned piece sitting in Front Royal, Virginia -- not extremely far from you.

Originally I did nearly all the work myself, and made plenty of progress on the car. Then I bought a new motor for it, and the problems began. When a resto shop removed the motor for warranty (which didn't get fixed), THEY did some work and screwed up much of the rest of the car -- and soaked me for the privilege. As I get money and time I'm repairing the mess, but it's taking a long time. Moral of the story -- go to a lot of local car cruises, make lots of friends, and find out which shops have good reputations and CARE about the cruising community. Then, any work you don't do on your own, go to them.

Two things I recommend doing before you go very far: first and foremost, check out the brakes, end to end. Much of the hardware is 46 years old; rubber hoses should be replaced, cylinders rebuilt or replaced, springs, etc., and last but definitely not least, the steel lines. Underneath the back corner of the driver's door, there is a small cover plate (supposedly for protection) where the brake and fuel lines turn to go toward the center of the car. Over time mud and crud get inside that plate, or some idiot uses the plate to lift the car. Brake lines have been known to burst inside that plate. Replace all the lines with stainless steel, and you're good for a long, long time.

The other thing is pull up the carpeting and look at the floor. You may not like what you see, but you'll be glad you checked. On a rainy day in 1967, someone accidentally left the door open and a lot of water got in the car -- it's still there. Clean up the floor pan, or replace it if needed, and let the carpeting dry out -- or replace the jute backing.

Enjoy it!

[Gary Tayman]

I might add, regarding the wheels, the original wires were 14" even though the standard wheels were 15". They could not be used on the 65's because of the switch to disk brakes. However aftermarket wires are available -- in fact the ones on my 64 actually came off of a 65. You'll soon see that the front wheels are different from the rear -- front ones clear the brakes while the rear ones are flatter and fit under the skirts (original wires could not be used with skirts). For the spare tire I have a regular wheel.

[mkoebra95]

Kevin and Gary, thanks for the info and suggestions!

I live in Waldorf MD and work ab out 35 miles away. What originally got me interested in owning and restoring an early to mid 60's TBird was hearing my Dad's stories about the car club he belonged to and there was a junk yard on my drive to work that appeared to have some old iron in it as I drove by. One day I stopped and this is what I saw:




and there were a couple of Bullet Birds as well. They were way too out of it for me to buy as a project car, but...

No more than half a mile down the road, I came across this one:


and decided it was some kind of omen. So I bought it.

Anyway, now that the engine starts and runs reliably, the brakes and suspension are next on the to do list. Funny how Gary suggested that huh?

Later,

Matt

[Gary Tayman]

>>>>Funny how Gary suggested that huh?

I have a certain hole in my garage wall that reminds me to bring that up . . .

Waldorf -- right on US 301.

To get to my house, get on US 301 and head south to the end. Turn left, go about three miles, turn left again.

Oh, by the way, from your place to the end of 301 is about 950 miles . . . fix your brakes first.

[Harley Eaton]

I'll just make some comments here: First - on wire wheels. Kelsey Hayes wire wheels have 48 spokes per wheel and only came in 14" size for Fords. Other makes (not KH) made 15" wheels with a different number of spokes. I don't know what you mean by "open rear end"....Windshield wipers are NOT electric. They are hydraulic, driven by the power steering pump. If all power windows quit, check the window safety relay: on firewall, engine side behind carburetor air cleaner. Sounds like the neutral safety switch needs adjusting. Holley carburetor is not original. Ford Autolite is a GOOD carburetor! Ford did not make the car with different wheels front and rear. All our wheels should be the same!

[mkoebra95]

Thanks for the info Harley. I appreciate it.

The term "open" rear end or rear axle means it didn't come from the factory with an "Equa Lock" differential. On the rear axle code on the build tag the restoration guide lists 1, 4, 5, and 6 as open and A and D ones with Equa Lock. Mine does a pretty good one wheel peel so I'm pretty sure it doesn't have an Equa Lock.

I played around with the power windows today and got them working. Basically the lock unlock switch was stuck in the lock posit.

I intended to repair/restore the steering column in a similar fashion to this thread, though I will do a little more troubleshooting prior to buying a bunch of unneeded parts.

I'd read that Autolite carbs were OE and they were quality. I could tell that the Holley one was a replacement given all of the crazy rigging that had been done: I assumed that Ford didn't use coat hangers as OEM throttle linkages...

Thanks,

-Matt.

[Gary Tayman]

Originally Posted by Harley Eaton

I'll just make some comments here: First - on wire wheels. Kelsey Hayes wire wheels have 48 spokes per wheel and only came in 14" size for Fords. Other makes (not KH) made 15" wheels with a different number of spokes. I don't know what you mean by "open rear end"....Windshield wipers are NOT electric. They are hydraulic, driven by the power steering pump. If all power windows quit, check the window safety relay: on firewall, engine side behind carburetor air cleaner. Sounds like the neutral safety switch needs adjusting. Holley carburetor is not original. Ford Autolite is a GOOD carburetor! Ford did not make the car with different wheels front and rear. All our wheels should be the same!

Harley,

The wheels I'm referring to are the aftermarket wires. The front wheels are designed to accommodate the disk brakes, the rear wheels are narrower to allow for skirts. My spare tire is on an original T-Bird wheel, so it can be used on any hub should the tire go flat. Original wires were 14" and were not available at all on the 65 or 66. If these wheels were installed on a car (64 or older) the skirts had to come off.

By open rear end I think he means the standard design, as opposed to limited slip. These cars were available with six rear axles; three speeds, both standard and non-slip. Seems like nearly all of them were 3:1.

Neutral safety switch probably has not moved, but the doughnut inside the column and possibly the shift lever/detent plate need replacing.

[grossman09]

You said on the original post that the windows did go up and dont any longer! I know that my motors work if i put them directly to the battery and bypass the switch so i was thinking about wireing in a 3 way switch instead of replacing the actual switch do you think that would work?


Just trying to get the windows working! Sometimes the fumes seep inside and i need some fresh air and i dont have money to pay for the replacement switches.

Thanks
JAE

[Gary Tayman]

I wouldn't go through all the work and fuss trying to bypass the switch, without checking the switch first! Yes, switches go bad, but if ALL the windows quit I seriously doubt that the switch is the problem anyway. As a matter of fact, the rear windows indeed have other switches. If you can't make them work, it's not the switches. Much more suspicious of that relay. On the 64 it's mounted on the right side of the firewall under one of those vent drains. I believe the 65 and 66 are the same place, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[grossman09]

I need to go through the whole schematic and check end to end I guess I was just being lazy but it would take an even longer time to make the switch panel. I'll definately be checking soon befor I go that far and make a new switch panel. Thank you.
JAE